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02/03/2017 at #8624Jeff HolthenrichsParticipant
Here you can see that the nose is too low. The fender lip is actually covering the top of the tire while there is a couple of fingers of air over the rear tires. In a few weeks when I get it back on the road I’ll post an “after” shot.
02/03/2017 at #8625V8 StaffKeymasterHere you can see that the nose is too low. The fender lip is actually covering the top of the tire while there is a couple of fingers of air over the rear tires. In a few weeks when I get it back on the road I’ll post an “after” shot.
Glad to hear of the winter progress! Lowering a car half-inch by half-inch is a lot of work, but also the best way to get it right without hitting the deck, as you are well aware! We’re looking forward to the pics to see how it sits!
These cars can be a pain, but that is also part of the joy of hot rodding, and I admire all you’ve been able to accomplish with the resources you’ve got at hand. Kudos!
Thanks for the progress update!
Kevin Oeste
02/03/2017 at #8626Jeff HolthenrichsParticipantNo, thank YOU for the support!
02/04/2017 at #8634Jeff HolthenrichsParticipantOK. OEM disc brake setups for the second gen Riv are unobtanium. And if you ARE fortunate enough to locate a set of calipers, they are usually about $400 a piece. And finding someone who will rebuild them is difficult and it is about half a grand per caliper. Rotors are also difficult to locate.
So looking to the aftermarket, a company called Scarebird makes a set of caliper brackets. They have redesigned them from their original release, but they still don’t fit as well as I would like. They use rotors from a ’71 – ’76 Riviera and use calipers from an AWD Chevy Astro Van. I think the calipers are a mismatch with the stock master cylinder. The brakes were barely adequate, even after I plumbed in a front hold-off valve and a rear 10 pound residual valve. I even added an adjustable proportioning valve to the rear trying to get more pedal. I’ve lived with it but now I want to see if there is something better.
A Riviera gent in Australia named Tony Gentilcore offers caliper brackets that are worlds above the Scarebird setup. They even use ’71 and later Riviera calipers with the same year rotors. The only catch is that the steering knuckle requires a little bit of clearancing to allow the brackets to fit. I had a shop use a mill to machine my knuckles, but after seeing it all put together, a competent home mechanic can do it with a die grinder.
The calipers are a 2-piece design, which is where the Scarebird brackets fail. The Scarebird brackets are a single piece of steel which really doesn’t fit well. Tony’s design makes sure the brackets and the caliper mounts are parallel to the mounting bracket, which the Scarebird brackets just can’t do.
Here are the brackets. I used the ultra high temp loc-tite to make sure they stay together. There are 2 different bolts, and they need to be installed in the right place to enable clearance of the knuckle.
Here you can see the clearanceing that needs to be done on the knuckle. The second pic is what the knuckle looks like before clearancing.
Here you can see how the clearancing is necessary for the brackets to clear the knuckle.
Here is the bracket installed. I’ll report back in about 2 weeks when I can drive it after installing the electric fan setup. Believe me, I’m tempted to just bolt the fan and radiator back in to test drive it, but I’ll wait.
02/05/2017 at #8635V8 StaffKeymasterOK. OEM disc brake setups for the second gen Riv are unobtanium. And if you ARE fortunate enough to locate a set of calipers, they are usually about $400 a piece. And finding someone who will rebuild them is difficult and it is about half a grand per caliper. Rotors are also difficult to locate.
So looking to the aftermarket, a company called Scarebird makes a set of caliper brackets. They have redesigned them from their original release, but they still don’t fit as well as I would like. They use rotors from a ’71 – ’76 Riviera and use calipers from an AWD Chevy Astro Van. I think the calipers are a mismatch with the stock master cylinder. The brakes were barely adequate, even after I plumbed in a front hold-off valve and a rear 10 pound residual valve. I even added an adjustable proportioning valve to the rear trying to get more pedal. I’ve lived with it but now I want to see if there is something better.
A Riviera gent in Australia named Tony Gentilcore offers caliper brackets that are worlds above the Scarebird setup. They even use ’71 and later Riviera calipers with the same year rotors. The only catch is that the steering knuckle requires a little bit of clearancing to allow the brackets to fit. I had a shop use a mill to machine my knuckles, but after seeing it all put together, a competent home mechanic can do it with a die grinder.
The calipers are a 2-piece design, which is where the Scarebird brackets fail. The Scarebird brackets are a single piece of steel which really doesn’t fit well. Tony’s design makes sure the brackets and the caliper mounts are parallel to the mounting bracket, which the Scarebird brackets just can’t do.
Here are the brackets. I used the ultra high temp loc-tite to make sure they stay together. There are 2 different bolts, and they need to be installed in the right place to enable clearance of the knuckle.
Here you can see the clearanceing that needs to be done on the knuckle. The second pic is what the knuckle looks like before clearancing.
Here you can see how the clearancing is necessary for the brackets to clear the knuckle.
Here is the bracket installed. I’ll report back in about 2 weeks when I can drive it after installing the electric fan setup. Believe me, I’m tempted to just bolt the fan and radiator back in to test drive it, but I’ll wait.
Great write-up, Yards! I’ve got a couple questions:
1. Did the spindles / bearings / rotors require any mods to mate the ’71 Riv rotors to the spindles? I think those are also standard B-body rotors, which were even used on some Chevy trucks. This makes them readily available, which is great.
2. I think that perhaps the drum brake master cylinder might need to be upgraded for better braking on your car, does a ’71 Riv master (disc / drum) have a similar footprint as the drum? I’ll have to check.
3. My only concern on these brackets is the spot welded support section… that gusset is being called on to keep the caliper square over the rotor, and under hard braking, the leverage is undoubtedly insanely high at that point. Especially in a 4500 lb monster at full steam at the end of the 1/4 mile. I’m wondering if a continuous weld is a better idea than the spots?
I’m also anxious to hear your results!
Thanks for sharing!
Kevin Oeste
02/05/2017 at #8636Jeff HolthenrichsParticipant1). The Rotors and bearings are a direct fit and readily available. No mods needed.
2). I’ve used a ’69 Riv disc/drum master cylinder since the initial Scarebird setup. Readily available, oddly enough.
3) If you recall, I had a continuous bead of weld run around the first set of brackets I bought and they warped a little. Would it have made a difference? Not sure. Tony has been using this setup for years with no issues. And he just started welding the spacers in place on the one bracket to add shear resistance and this is the first set he did with the added gusset. If it really makes a difference, I might just pull the brackets and have them welded permanently, provided I can find someone who can do it without warping them.02/05/2017 at #8637V8 StaffKeymasterThat’s cool that the rotors will go right on the drum spindles.
I had forgotten that you used the ’69 disc master, great point that those are available. In my mind, I keep thinking that ALL factory disc brake parts are hard to get.
I apologize for forgetting that you had the first ones fully welded… we have lots of cars to track in the shop, that detail escaped me. I think the solution there would be to bolt the bracket to a fixture or solid square stock to keep them straight while welding. Even more tacks would suffice, bouncing around during the process, or TIG welding it all around. If they have a solid track record, then they are probably good to go! We don’t like to leave anything to chance on brakes.
Kevin Oeste
02/05/2017 at #8638Jeff HolthenrichsParticipantIf this makes a difference, then I’ll order another set and send them to you and pay your shop to weld it right for me. Then I can just swap the brackets over and not have down time. And I agree about not taking chances with brakes.Too many people spend too much time and money making a car go faster without improving the braking.
02/05/2017 at #8639Jeff HolthenrichsParticipantOh, I think it dawned on my why you show concern for the welded-in spacers and gusset. The bolts that hold the two brackets together actually thread into the outboard plate from the back side of the inboard plate. The spacers are just held in place with the weld, but the bolts actually hold the 2 brackets against each other.
02/08/2017 at #8648V8 StaffKeymasterOh, I think it dawned on my why you show concern for the welded-in spacers and gusset. The bolts that hold the two brackets together actually thread into the outboard plate from the back side of the inboard plate. The spacers are just held in place with the weld, but the bolts actually hold the 2 brackets against each other.
Thanks for the clarification.
Kevin Oeste
03/07/2017 at #8758V8 StaffKeymasterNow this is wild… 1970 Riviera right-hand drive conversion in Australia.
“For Sale RHD 1970 Buick Riviera GS
$ 23000
Sydney – Tony Gentilcore 0408 964 217 or 02 9453 919918 hours
This is a very rare find, a highly optioned RHD GS Coupe (conversion done by Bill Buckle Autos, Brookvale 1970) I am told on good authority that they were one of the best conversions in Australia.Factory disc brake front end, chrome rallye wheels, strato bucket seats with console floor shift. Total 1970 production of 37,336 Rivs of which only 3,505 were GS’s
According to my research, the 70 Riviera GS came with Heavy duty suspension, (includes different shocks, springs, heavy duty track bar) 3.42 Positraction Rear and Chrome air cleaner cover.
More info: http://rivowners.org/features/evolution/evpt70.htmlThis year model has the most powerful 455 Buick engine made, before emission regulations were introduced.
The 95 year old gentleman has been the proud owner of this Buick since 1971 but hardly driven in the last 20 years. Always registered and Insured and currently registered until June with the special NSW plates.
It has only 64,600 miles on the clock and apart from some minor rust spots and paint blemishes it’s very dry, straight and complete. Need new roof rail and door rubbers and steering box is leaking. Drives and stops well. Chassis and floors dry and rust -free. It starts easily and runs well without any knocks or smoke. I’m helping the seller with this sale so please contact me by email or call me with any questions. All reasonable offers will be considered. More pictures available on request. (close ups of blemishes, rust spots and under car shots)
Sydney – Tony Gentilcore 0408 964 217 or 02 9453 9199”
Sale link: http://buickclub.org.au/classified/rhd-1970-buick-riviera-gs-coupe/
Kevin Oeste
03/09/2017 at #8761Jeff HolthenrichsParticipantKevin! This is the gent from whom I just purchased my disc brake conversion brackets! Which, BTW, work wonderfully!
03/09/2017 at #8762V8 StaffKeymasterKevin! This is the gent from whom I just purchased my disc brake conversion brackets! Which, BTW, work wonderfully!
I thought his name sounded familiar! Glad to hear the brakes are working out for you!
Kevin Oeste
12/20/2018 at #9408Jeff HolthenrichsParticipantJust thought I’d toss this in here. It will help bring it to the top as well. Bill Hirsch paint. My 69 Riv. The engine has been in the car since 2010, so it was showing terribly. I painted the frame rails last winter but the recent degreasing and pressure washing took all of that off. LOL I usually do some kind of cosmetic work each winter, and often something mechanical. I swapped to new timing cover bolts as the old ones just weren’t staying clamped any more and causing a lot of oil gunk. I plan on also sanding and painting the inner fenders. Unfortunately I can’t remove the A/C components in the corner of the pass fender, so I’ll have to blend in around there.
10/17/2021 at #165228V8 StaffKeymasterWell, there has been some time since my last post on the Riv, but things are still going strong. I drive the car as much as I can, and have since started the 1970 Buick Riviera Owners and Enthusiasts Facebook group. I’m not a huge Facebook fan, but the group is cool and growing. Here’s the link, feel free to join if you’ve got one of these sleds or are just in to them!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/362550140791001
Kevin Oeste
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